Curse

Isileth · Nov 27, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Actually Mineria on the GW proph box it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Prophecies Box

It's your Adventure
Jump right into the world of thousands where each mission is created just for you. Live a fast paced action adventure without travel time delay, high death penalties, or spawn camping. Join with friends or play solo with a band of skillful henchmen.

Its under the warrior tab if you want to read it for yourself.

Trelliz · Nov 27, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

There's a whole bunch of Heroes that I never take.

Yes, i use the 3-Necro setup, because it freakin' works. Prior to that i took a heal-prot monk (dunkoro), an MM (MoW cos i didn't like the look of Olias, at least until Livia) and an interrupt mesmer (Norgu, rapidly replaced by gwen).

so now all my heroes bar the necros sit there doing squat, only possibly being wheeled out when mastering Nightfall quests that require them, even so their prescence is a nuisance, between me and a friend one of us will bring the 3-necro build, the other bringing the required hero and some other general support. After that they go back in the box.

I did level them all to 20, only because i was SS farming and level has little effect when in a junundu, so it seemed and obvious way to do 2 tasks at once, and their skills all changed to the same anyway.

Actually, i get out certain heroes to give them new armour, put their statue up and then put them away again. Oh, i also dump good but unsellable weapons on them, the ones that don't get pre-order weapons, anyway.

arcady · Nov 27, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Guild Wars is social tactical game about managing limited resources.

This is why you can only list 8 skills at a time, instead of all of them (such as in WoW), and why you only get control over 3 members of your team. For half of the PvE game, groups can only be up to 4 anyway, so you have full control there and can be as anti-social as you want.

But further in, you should have learned something from that experience, and you should be able to handle working in a group where not all of the factors are under your control.

It is a social game, all about experiencing it with others - both in PvE and PvP. That they give you 3 heroes is already too many in this regard.

If they ever took GW offline, made it solo like Oblivion, then sure, they'd have a reason to give you a full hero team. But it is still online, still social, and the point is still to PUG as a means to improve the experience.

high priestess anya · Nov 27, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesusrunz

mo optionZ 2 chuse frum

*offers dictionary*

Isileth · Nov 27, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

But its not arcady.

People are welcome to PuG, I in no way want to stop people pugging, if people have fun doing that then good for them.

That doesnt mean everyone has to.

GW is a game where you can go solo, its advertised on the box, it was reinforced with the addition of heroes in Nightfall, it was reinforced again in GW:EN by adding more heroes and giving more people access to heroes. So no its not meant to be a game where you have to PuG and socialise and have a jolly good time with others, you can if you want to, but you dont have to.

No matter what im not going to PuG. Dont make the mistake of thinking that by removing solo options everyone will PuG instead.

I do agree with you on it being a tactical game however, where coming up with team builds that work is a key part of the game.
With a team of players you can change all 8 builds. With h/h you only have control of 4. This means for most of the game you are forced into setting up your builds to cover for the poor hench builds.

And just to state it again, GW is advertised as a game you can play solo so disagreeing based on you not liking people who dont play with others is really irrelevant.

Vinraith · Nov 27, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

If they ever took GW offline, made it solo like Oblivion, then sure, they'd have a reason to give you a full hero team. But it is still online, still social, and the point is still to PUG as a means to improve the experience.

Now see, I can find on the box where it says "play solo," but I can't find where it says "this is a social game and you'll have to play it with others to complete some areas."

See, if I did see that on the box I'd never have bought the game, so you're going to have to show me the fine print that you clearly think I missed. If they wanted to make a game where you would have to PUG sometimes they should have honestly advertised it as such.

Mineria · Nov 28, 2007, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Actually Mineria on the GW proph box it does.

I got the original Prophecies box and the 1 million edition here, but no where on them does it say something about solo... EU versions btw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Its under the warrior tab if you want to read it for yourself.

So since I don't see it on the box I looked into the Manuscripts.
All I could find there was this on page 62:

Quote:

Don't Go It Alone

Most missions and quests are easier to complete with several players...

Going to scan the box covers and the manuscript later and file it up.

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I got the original Prophecies box and the 1 million edition here, but no where on them does it say something about solo... EU versions btw.

Well that's pretty intriguing...I wonder why they did that? Maybe the American was a mistake?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

And just to state it again, GW is advertised as a game you can play solo so disagreeing based on you not liking people who dont play with others is really irrelevant.

Yes, they stated that you could play with henchmen. Did they mention if the henchmen were viable, stupid or had horrible builds? Nay. So in essence we kinda got what we payed for in that respect.

Vinraith · Nov 28, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yes, they stated that you could play with henchmen. Did they mention if the henchmen were viable, stupid or had horrible builds? Nay. So in essence we kinda got what we payed for in that respect.

Actually the box specifically refers to the henchmen as "skillful" which I think we can all agree was just an outright lie.

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

I got the original Prophecies box and the 1 million edition here, but no where on them does it say something about solo... EU versions btw.

Well I have the EU version as well.
But if you look around the forums you will see im not the only one who quotes it so its deffinately there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yes, they stated that you could play with henchmen. Did they mention if the henchmen were viable, stupid or had horrible builds? Nay. So in essence we kinda got what we payed for in that respect.

Well actually yes, yes they did.
Band of skillful henchmen

And then when they added heroes, thats deffinate proof of making solo play viable.
Then again in GW:EN with more heroes and greater hero access.

So trying to pass solo play off as not being a valid form of play isnt going to work.

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Well actually yes, yes they did.
Band of skillful henchmen

And who defines "skillful?" PCGamer? Check out their build suggestions in that GWEN mag.

As far as ANet knew at the time, that warrior build on the other side of the box was skillfull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

So trying to pass solo play off as not being a valid form of play isnt going to work.

It works fine, and even more so with heroes and only four of them. My point is not that "solo play is unviable," yet that ANet doesn't owe us anything.

Yanman.be · Nov 28, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

This thread would be so more awesome if it was "Why have 3 heroes to use 25 off at a time?"

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And who defines "skillful?" PCGamer? Check out their build suggestions in that GWEN mag.

Not quite sure what you mean by the PCGamer comment. This is Anet who said it was skillful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It works fine, and even more so with heroes and only four of them. My point is not that "solo play is unviable," yet that ANet doesn't owe us anything.

Of course they dont owe us. They dont owe us extra storage, they dont owe us events, they dont owe us new content.

That doesnt mean that
1) People wont ask for it
2) They wont provide it

At the end of the day this is a business. They are going to want as many people as possible to move onto GW2 since that means more money.

Right now GW2 is still a way off and GW isnt going to be having any major new content added. So when people are bored with what GW currently has to offer they will leave.

Right now the solo player has access to a lot less than others. So they have less content to get through until they leave.

And before anyone mentions it again, yes we know its possible to h/h HM and high end areas. But right now doing so requires specific builds because you have to build around the henchmen. To me that gets boring very fast.

I dont want to have to run the same build everytime just because im covering for a henchmen.
I dont want to have to take a charge warrior with less than 8 skills on his bar just because there are more important roles to fill.
I dont want to take 2 hench monks only to have to add another monk for condition and hex removal that they lack.

Granting 7 heroes will keep the game going longer for a lot of people.

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Not quite sure what you mean by the PCGamer comment. This is Anet who said it was skillful.

It was also ANet who let those horrid builds go into their magazine. It was recommended that Jora brought Healing Hands as her elite.

Instead of quote warring with you I'll get right to the point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Granting 7 heroes will keep the game going longer for a lot of people.

And could it also kill it for more?

Given other certain things that have been added and tweaked with in the past, anything is unpredictable. Yes it would be awesome, I would *love* to have 7 heroes, but we have no idea what the consequences could be.

As one example I gave, a lot of people don't prefer to H/H because "henchmen suck." That would of course have to be a very misinformed comment because a large majority of missions can be henched, and *all* of the game can be hero henched.

So what if this pugger, now with the option of having 7 heroes, decides to now go with heroes for everything? That's fine if he wants to, but it would lessen the people available for a PUG.

Fact(s) of the matter are this: We know PUGing is tough enough as it is, we know that the whole game can be hero henched excluding elite missions (which are probably easier with real people anyways), and we really have no idea what will happen *if* 7 heroes are implemented.

So ANet is going to do what's safe, and that's nothing. You are still very able to play the game with only 4 heroes. 7 heroes are not needed, they're wanted.

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Ok so the people who would go with 7 heroes over a PuG who currently dont h/h at the moment.

They would prefer to go solo, but currently PuG because they feel h/h is disadvantaged.

You would stop them playing how they would prefer just so you have more people to PuG with?

The only people who would switch to 7 heroes are those who want to use 7 heroes. Those people who prefer PuGs will stay in PuGs. A lot of people play the game for the social interaction, so they will continue to play with PuGs because its why they purchased the game to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

So ANet is going to do what's safe, and that's nothing. You are still very able to play the game with only 4 heroes. 7 heroes are not needed, they're wanted.

We have had this discussion before in that its a game and you dont need anything.

But no, going solo you dont get access to all the game. You miss out on team builds, you are limited in what builds you can run etc. To me thats a big part of the game.

odly · Nov 28, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Going solo you dont get access to all the game. You miss out on team builds, you are limited in what builds you can run etc. To me thats a big part of the game.

And you're excluded from some Elite area's that don't have henchmen at all. Either it should be forbidden to use heroes in there or they should add henchmen. Solo people were allways excluded from those area's.

7 heroes would make so many people happy that Anet realises they would not buy GW2 because there are not going to be heroes and henchmen in GW2. They decided to keep you playing and being not happy because that's the way they'll get you to buy GW2.

They're a company selling games is what counts.

[/conspiracy mode]

Bryant Again · Nov 28, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Ok so the people who would go with 7 heroes over a PuG who currently dont h/h at the moment.

They would prefer to go solo, but currently PuG because they feel h/h is disadvantaged.

You would stop them playing how they would prefer just so you have more people to PuG with?

Depends on the mentality. I was thinking more along the lines of someone who likes to PUG, but doesn't want to try H/Hing due to his lack of faith in henchmen. 7 heroes are available, he tries it out, and he likes it as well. He no longer PUGs because of that.

Being "forced to PUG" because of the henchmen is very different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

The only people who would switch to 7 heroes are those who want to use 7 heroes. Those people who prefer PuGs will stay in PuGs. A lot of people play the game for the social interaction, so they will continue to play with PuGs because its why they purchased the game to begin with.

This is what I mean. How can you be so sure that it'll be as simple as that? There could very possibly be people like the example I've stated above. How many people? Don't know, and that's the point: We know little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

We have had this discussion before in that its a game and you dont need anything.

Agreed, and that's something that I was thinking about after I posted that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

But no, going solo you dont get access to all the game. You miss out on team builds, you are limited in what builds you can run etc. To me thats a big part of the game.

But you can still play through the whole game. Yes, it's limiting in what you can do, but my needs are not more important than the needs of anyone else. I'd love to have 7 heroes because, as I've said, it makes it much more personal and flexible. But I'd rather have 3 then have to put people at a disadvantage.

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Depends on the mentality. I was thinking more along the lines of someone who likes to PUG, but doesn't want to try H/Hing due to his lack of faith in henchmen. 7 heroes are available, he tries it out, and he likes it as well. He no longer PUGs because of that.

Well still in that case its the players choice of which he prefers. So in that case he would prefer to go solo but is currently unable to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

This is what I mean. How can you be so sure that it'll be as simple as that? There could very possibly be people like the example I've stated above. How many people? Don't know, and that's the point: We know little.

We do know to some degree however.

Those players who prefer to PuG over solo play will carry on PuGing.
A lot of players already h/h.
A lot of players only play with friends/guilds/alliance.

So already thats 3 large groups of players who wouldnt be removed from the "PuG pool" simply because they either prefer it, or are already not using PuGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrant Again

But you can still play through the whole game.

I have to disagree here, because to me the game isnt just the different areas.
If im killing something in the Crystal Desert, or killing something in the Realm of Torment it makes very little difference to me.
I see the majority of the game being made up of all the different playstyles, mechanics etc.

Since I can only change 1/2 of my team that limits playstyles so much. So to me its a huge ammount of the game that I cant experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Yes, it's limiting in what you can do, but my needs are not more important than the needs of anyone else. I'd love to have 7 heroes because, as I've said, it makes it much more personal and flexible. But I'd rather have 3 then have to put people at a disadvantage.

It also works the other way round. Solo players shouldnt be disadvantaged to support PuGing.

With 7 heroes would PuGing be reduced? Possibly
With 7 heroes would PuGing die? No (Due to reasons above)

With 7 heroes would solo players finally have access to most of the game? Yes (minus a few elite areas simply due to the mechanics there)

To me it seems a minor reduction in the ease of PuGing to allow a whole group of players to actually be able to access the full game.

And that minor reduction in PuGing could easily be offset with improvements to the party search system or something along those lines.

macie28 · Nov 28, 2007, 05:11 PM // 17:11

As much I would like this feature to be implemented, and believe me i really do want this!, one the most annoying thing a person can encounter is a 12 yr old spamming all kinds of BS on teamchat when your in a mission. I would have to say no.
My reason is Guildwars is meant to be played with other people. With a 7 hero party, this would dramatically decrease the chance of getting a people group together. Personally I prefer to H/H my way through the game, because it's faster and much more efficient, but it does get boring really fast! Why? Because, its much more fun to play with other players, the unpredictability and messiness of a pug group, for good or for bad, makes the game.
So my vote is no. Sorry guys.

Isileth · Nov 28, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Sorry macie, GW is not meant to played with other people. (Will people read threads before posting?)

You have the option of playing with others or going solo. Thats why a lot of people purchased the game with the sole purpose of playing solo.

And if you prefer PuGing as you say, no one would force you to take 7 heroes.
No one wants to stop people PuGing.